Dutch composer Arjen Lucassen has always pushed against the grain to make music that satisfies his instincts, working with a wide variety of musicians including James LaBrie, Fish, Mikael Åkerfeldt, Floor Jansen, Russell Allen, Tobias Sammet, Anneke Van Giersbergen, Damian Wilson and even Rutger Hauer.
Of course, it hasn’t always gone to plan. In 2009 – half-way through his career to date – he told Prog about some of the wins and losses he’d chalked up via his Ayreon, Star One, Ambeon projects and more.
It must be satisfying that Ayreon is so popular given that when you first came up with the concept, record labels dismissed you.
They laughed at me. I think between 30 and 50 record companies turned me down. The first album was recorded in 1995 – those were the days of grunge, and there I was with a progressive rock opera! So that was hard but finally I found a Japanese company who were interested. To everyone’s surprise, including my own, it started selling.
When I was working on it, I just had a good feeling about it. I liked it so much that I knew there had to be people who were interested in this kind of stuff. You know, people like me who grew up with Jesus Christ Superstar or with The Who’s Tommy, as well as all the prog concept stuff like Journey To The Centre Of The Earth.
Was it hard getting musicians to become involved with Ayreon, and has that changed?
Well, to a degree it’s still hard. For the first album I managed to get Barry Hay from Golden Earring, and I think that gave me confidence for the next album to try other people. I did the second Ayreon album completely differently, and the result was that it really didn’t sell that well.
So when it came to record the third album, I really had the feeling that I had to do something really huge and really over-the-top. I approached Fish and I think having him on that album was the beginning of Ayreon’s success. Nowadays, people in the prog and metal scene know me, but it’s hard to get the really big names, like Ian Gillan or Dave Gilmour.
Before I knew it the news was everywhere. Bruce’s manager was really angry
I remember I spoke with Dave Gilmour; I don’t think he really listens to this kind of music as it’s too far from his style. I also came very close to getting Ian Gillan, but unfortunately at the last moment he couldn’t do it. Then again, there are people like Dream Theater’s James LaBrie, who actually approached me, which was such a big compliment.
What are your thoughts on some of your other projects, such as the space rock of Star One or the laid-back Ambeon?
Star One was originally going to be a Bruce Dickinson solo album. Bruce had sung on one of my Ayreon albums; he really liked my stuff and wanted to do an album with me. So I wrote these 12 songs, which were in the style of Deep Purple and Hawkwind, and sent them to him.
He started working on them – but then I did a very stupid thing. I spoke about it on the internet, and before I knew it the news was everywhere. Bruce’s manager was really angry, and he cancelled the whole project.
So there I was with 12 songs that were a bit too heavy for Ayreon, and that was how it turned into Star One. I think I could do a better Star One album than the first one, and I’m even planning to do so.
If I’m not being creative, I’m in a deep black hole, and that happens after each album that I do
As for Ambeon, I basically wanted to make an electronic album as I’m a big fan of bands like Tangerine Dream. I was working on it when I got a recording of singer Astrid Van der Veen, and she was amazing. She sang on the album and it worked out so well.
She was only 14 and was the most talented singer I’ve ever worked with. But unfortunately she’s not doing well. I’m still in contact with her, and I would love to do another album with her, but she’s not up to it at the moment.
You seem to be constantly working; are you someone who has to be busy all the time?
Yes – if I’m not being creative, I’m in a deep black hole, and that happens after each album that I do. When an album is done and mastered, it’s horrible because you want to continue. As I don’t [often] play live, I want to dive straight into another project; and when I do start again, the ideas don’t come.
It happens every time; I worry that the creative well is dry. But luckily, so far, the inspiration always comes back. People often think that I’m a workaholic because I do so many albums and get involved in so many projects – but really I’m not. I don’t have kids, I don’t have a family and I don’t have to play live, so that gives me a lot of time.
Your new project, Guilt Machine, is far removed from the bombastic Ayreon albums. What were your motivations for creating it?
My albums have always been reactions to the one I recorded before. My last release was 01011001 – the first Ayreon album that I was not totally satisfied with. It featured 17 singers, and it had this huge science fiction story about human evolution and alien invasions, and it was absurd.
Really, there was too much of everything and it became too cheesy. So for Guilt Machine, I really wanted to go back to using as few people as possible and move away from the whole science fiction thing.
With Ayreon you go from one extreme to another – from classical to didgeridoo all the way to death metal
The lyrics are very cryptic and open to interpretation, which is exactly what I wanted. I think this album is far more consistent than Ayreon. With Ayreon you go from one extreme to another – it can go from a classical part to a didgeridoo, to a folky part, to a proggy part all the way through to death metal.
I think it’s a more mature album – not only lyrically but also musically – and I believe people who find Ayreon too cheesy will enjoy this album far more.
